EP 102 Edited
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~ You know, ~[00:00:00] Negotiation is one of those few leadership skills that actually no one formally teaches. So you either ~grow,~ grew up around people who did it really well and learnt by osmosis and, you know, really absorbed that ~and,~ and modeled them. Or you didn't. And if you haven't, you've probably been taking those skills and improvising ever since.
So this is what today's episode is all about, and I think it's a really important episode, and I'm really excited to bring it to you because most negotiation, treats it as a confidence problem, and you're gonna hear direct why it's not. So I'm absolutely thrilled to be having a chat with Angela Langmann, who's spent 16 years at Amazon across the US, UK, and Australia, and then finishing ~really~ as general manager, and was on the executive team when [00:01:00] Amazon Australia launched in 2017. So by her own account, she's actually spent those years reviewing promotions, compensation decisions, talent pipelines. But the most important part, now she actually coaches women on negotiation and influence, mostly in tech. So she advises startups through Techstars, Antler, and Loyal VC.
I had the privilege of, ~uh,~ meeting Angela through a mutual mastermind , and it's been incredible getting to know her, and I think you're gonna love this episode. So let's get into it
Welcome to the Style and Strategy Podcast, where leadership meets personal brand and style. I'm Sonya, I'm bringing you practical strategies, bold insights, and honest conversations to help you amplify your presence, unlock your next level, and lead with clarity and confidence.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Hi, everyone. Welcome back [00:02:00] to the Style and Strategy podcast. I am absolutely thrilled to have Angela here with me. ~Um, ~Look, Angela, I'm so excited to be able to connect,~ uh,~ with you again on a topic that I am actually very passionate about, 'cause I don't think we talk about it enough. But welcome to the podcast
Angela Langmann: Thank you so much, Sonya, for having me. I am a huge fan of your podcast, and I'm
Sonya: Yay.
Angela Langmann: to be a
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Well,
Angela Langmann: Thank you
Sonya Choi La Rosa: you're very welcome. So you know what? Um, I think if most people know me, I like to just get straight into the thick of it. No fluff,~ uh,~ from this end, 'cause who, who really has the time? So let's dive in. I wanna know, what is the most misunderstood ~piece, uh,~ piece of advice or element around negotiation?
Angela Langmann: Yes. ~Um, ~good question. For me, what I constantly hear and that I have to kind of myth bust is that people feel a negotiation needs to be really aggressive tactics, and that the [00:03:00] other side of the negotiation, the person you're negotiating with, is going to feel bad about it. They're not going to like you because you're asking for more money, and they're going to ~kind of ~be upset with you because you're asking for more money. this situation, I'm not talking about when you're going to a market and you're trying to ask like a small business owner that just crocheted something for twenty hours if you can have five dollars
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: like handmade gift. I'm talking about when you are getting a job at a corporation that usually has a lot of money. ~Um, ~that is the negotiation I'm discussing. The other part of this myth is that,~ um,~ you just need to be more confident, and that's gonna make you a better negotiator. And so both of those are ~really, ~really untrue. ~Um, ~once I explain to people that negotiation is expected, then it becomes a completely different kind of mindset and that most employers will respect you if you negotiate.
They're not gonna be upset with you. It is [00:04:00] something that they are prepared to do, and they've built in mechanisms within their salaries to,~ um,~ to deal with that, to deal with negotiation. ~Um, ~the confidence piece, again, it's not about just being more confident. It's you need a strategy on how you're going to negotiate, and then the confidence comes later. So I really do not like any advice that's just ~like, ~"I need to be more confident," because we are confident.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: people. Don't tell me to be more confident. I just need more data and a strategy, and then I'm gonna negotiate.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah. ~I,~ I love what you've said that negotiation is expected. ~Uh, ~'cause I, I think, you know, many of time, and I c- I can remember so many examples even for me personally, that you've walked into something and~ y- you,~ you're wanting to go in there with all these guns blazing, but you're thinking, "No, they're gonna say no," or, "No, let me just pare it back."
And so you're already starting to discount before you've walked in the room and, and had, well, hang on, this is [00:05:00] my value. This is my ~k- my~ kind of worth. So ~I, I,~ I think that's a great piece of advice. So, you know, when we think about negotiation, right? ~I, I,~ I guess I come from this school of thought, if I think about me and how I've learnt negotiation, or many women that I've spoken to, it's, it's like, well, actually, no one's really taught you.
~It's not like a s- ~It's not technically something that you pick up through school. It's usually through osmosis. You've watched someone, you've then maybe had a few errors around that. ~That...~ So tell me for you and the industry that you've then jumped into, like, how did you learn to negotiate? ~What-~ How did that all come about?
Angela Langmann: ~Yeah, yeah. Good, good, another good, ~Good question because you're right. It isn't something ~that is something, you know, ~that we get taught,~ um,~ in high school or when we are, ~you know, ~starting to go to university typically. We're not, ~you know, ~no one's sitting us down and saying, "Okay, so for your first job offer, here's how you ask for money.
Here's how you counteroffer." I wish they would, and that's something that I'm really working hard to change is that, ~you know, ~filling that education gap that exists. [00:06:00] But for me, the way I learned was through a mentor. So I started at Amazon back in 2006. I was pretty entry-level, and the role that I had soon after I started changed, and it morphed into a different type of role ~was actually, um,~ that required a higher level than what I had come into.
But they obviously thought I was capable of it, so they offered it to me. So I had a mentor at the time, and actually it was a male mentor who said, "You know, Angela, you should say yes to that role, but you need to go into your boss's office and tell him the only way you will take the role is if they give you a promotion." So I had to hear somebody that was, ~you know, ~much more senior than I was telling me, ~you know, very--~ barely starting at this massive corporation to go in there and demand something. I was so scared. ~Like, I could--~ It was the scariest thing that I'd ever done in my professional career. but I trusted him, and I went in, and I [00:07:00] made, ~you know, ~the case, and they came true on it, and I got promoted.
And so that for me was the first kind of proof point that actually if you advocate for yourself and you advocate ~well ~and you do it respectfully and in a collaborative manner,~ um,~ you can achieve good results. And that's a lot of the technique that I work with my clients on is ~how are we--~ how are they doing it in a collaborative ~matter-~ manner. And the great thing about negotiation is that once you have a win under your belt, you are gonna start negotiating more often because you understand that you have the skills and that you have the strategy to do it. And so you're not just gonna negotiate for your salary, you may negotiate for other areas of your life, like maybe a new car or your rent or, ~you know, ~other areas,~ um,~ that you can negotiate. ~other, um, the other Sorry, just pause there. ~ The other area where I learned to negotiate was at Amazon. I was a negotiations
Sonya Choi La Rosa: hi
Angela Langmann: so that is ~kind of ~my extra advantage that I have. ~so, you know, ~Amazon is always negotiating commercial contracts with their vendors and [00:08:00] suppliers, we teach our buyers, our vendor managers, on how to do that negotiation. So I took that course myself through Scotwork training, and then I became a trainer, so it was a, a train the trainer situation. And so I taught ~many, ~many people at Amazon how to negotiate these multi-million dollar deals. And so ~it's~ my experience is a blend of formal training and also seeing and hundreds of people come through Amazon's door and negotiating for themselves, and me being on the other side and understanding kind of what tactics work and
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah. I think there's, again, there's so many elements that really reinforces this,~ um,~ I guess, passion I've got around this topic and the, and the fact that you're teaching and supporting women around this, because that flow on impact to other areas of your life,~ um, you know, again, I,~ I've bounced into people who will say, "Well, you know,~ I,~ I don't do that part of it," or, "I may not get into the negotiate," not only just on [00:09:00] salary, but you think about exactly as you referred to, your house purchase, your,~ um,~ you know, anything else, any ~bi-~ big major piece.
So it's not only personally, but it's everything else that sits around. So,~ um,~ I think being able to have that investment and that sort of training,~ uh, is, is, I,~ I would say priceless as a skill that you would use, ~you know, ~ongoing across your life.
Angela Langmann: Absolutely, and you are so spot on that once you successfully negotiate, you're gonna tell your friends that you negotiated, and you will have that ripple effect, and you'll give them the confidence like, "Oh, that's great. Sonya negotiated that? I didn't even know you could negotiate that. I'm gonna go try and do it, too."
And that creates that positive ripple effect where we have more and more women negotiating their salaries and asking to get paid what the market is
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah.
Angela Langmann: get
Sonya Choi La Rosa: ~And so, you know,~ You just touched on the market there, and then earlier you talked about,~ um,~ the data points. Like, so normally we go, you know, we're already confident. ~I just need...~ Give me your strategy, give me the data. [00:10:00] So if I just pull on that thread a little bit more, when you talk about the data, ~what, w- ~what would you recommend that someone sort of go and look for ~if, as a,~ as a starting point?
You know, most of us will try to Google some salaries and thing and go, hang on. But there's more to ~it th- th-~ than that, especially when you, you kinda move up the ranks.
Angela Langmann: ~Yeah, ~ yeah, definitely. And from the technique that I use as part of, I call it the insider strategy method, it is a triangulation of a lot of different data points. So the major one is gonna be, yes, go Google, ask, ~you know, ~whatever chat you can, Glassdoor, Levels, Pay Scales, SEEK, LinkedIn. I recommend going and getting ~like ~ten sources of data.
You don't wanna rely on just one source of data. Secondly, I have created a tool, it's a salary analyzer, that pulls in a lot of those resources, as well as things like the Hay Salary Guide in Australia that's a really thick, rich PDF that has the data. So I put a lot of those data points into it, and you can put your [00:11:00] information into that salary analyzer, and it will tell you whether you're ~kind of ~underpaid, at the median, upper quartile, and a little bit of like techniques of what you should,~ um,~ do
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: underpaid. The third thing is go ask your friends. ~You know, ~ladies, we don't talk about money enough, and a lot of men are going to their friends,~ um,~ cousins, whatever, saying, "Hey, how much money are you making?" ~Like, ~there's just a lot more comfortability around talking about what you make, and I encourage more and more people to talk about what we make.
It shouldn't be this
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: dirty little secret. And then the fourth thing I would say is, hire a negotiation coach because I can tell you
Sonya Choi La Rosa: We can help with that.
Angela Langmann: if the number that you have is too low. ~Um, ~just a little bit aside, kinda sidebar on negotiation coach,~ um,~ and why it's important. I think of times you can get the data points, and Sonya, you could go and do all that [00:12:00] research that I just told you, and probably the number, let's say it came back and it was like, "You should ask for two seventy-five." But let's say you're only making two hundred. For you, that gap seems too much. You will talk yourself out of it. If you hire a coach, right, what do you think the coach is gonna do? The coach is gonna say, "Hell no, Sonya. Why would you ask for less than what the market is telling you that you can
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: for?" that gives you this confident boost, confidence boost to go and say, "You're right. I
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: ask for that money." I will probably tell you to add twenty percent on top of it because th- they're gonna, ~you know, ~negotiate you down. But that is the power of having ~like ~a
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Mm-hmm.
Angela Langmann: your corner to say, "No, you deserve what the market data is telling you.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah. Oh, I love that, love that description behind it. So, ~you know, you've sat in, um, so many, uh, great organizations, and you've sat in those meetings where, you know, the promotions, the pay got descri- descri, uh, decided. Let me just... I'll say that again. ~you sat in those meetings where,~ you know,~ the promotions, the pay got decided, who it was that they were going to be, you know, going for, comparing the candidates and so forth.
So ~talk me a little bit, uh,~ talk me [00:13:00] through a little bit from your lens. You know, ~h- when, ~when it comes down to these two candidates and~ y-~ you're really looking to decide either it's around the pay,~ um,~ what you're gonna offer versus,~ um,~ the right candidate for that role between those, what are some of the insights, um, that ~you,~ you would really call out ~that maybe some,~ especially some of my listeners may not be,~ uh,~ aware of?
Angela Langmann: Yeah. Yes. So one of the, another myth that I want to bust is that if the employer wants you, they will try and pay you what you're asking. this scenario where it's two candidates. ~That are...~ They're ~kind of ~deciding against, and one is asking for less money, they're gonna go for the less money one.
That doesn't happen. Usually through the interview process, they are evaluating a candidate on its own. They will come to the decision on which candidate to choose before even talking about the salary. And so that sometimes, I think, stops people when they [00:14:00] are interviewing. They think, "Oh, well, I'm gonna come in as a cheaper candidate, so I can make sure that I get ~the, ~the job." ~That, that,~ That is inaccurate because it's the recruiter's job, right? When you're talking to them in the beginning to say, "Okay, what's your range, Angela?" And I'm gonna tell that recruiter my range, and that will either be in ~the r-~ the scope of possibility of pay or not. If it's not, you're not even gonna interview. If it is, they will then choose the best candidate for the job, and then we have a pay conversation. So that's what those conversations are really like. I have never once sat there and said, "Okay,~ b-~ I agree that both of these we should hire. Now who's cheapest?"
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't happen like that, does it? Yeah.
Angela Langmann: ~Right?~
Sonya Choi La Rosa: No,
Angela Langmann: you
Sonya Choi La Rosa: no. ~It, ~it is absolutely, and, and especially now, you know, and we were earlier having a conversation around AI and ~how,~ how the market is shifting and changing and so forth. So it is about that individual, the capability that they bring to the room.
~Um, you know, and~ I think now more than ever, the [00:15:00] adaptability of that candidate, which I then think back to your point of it's having a coach to be able to back you,~ um,~ when you go in for those salary negotiations and all of that. If you are ticking the box on all of those elements, then, you know, bringing that value,~ uh,~ back to you.
Angela Langmann: Yeah, and ~that's, ~that's one of the things that ~we work with,~ I work with my clients on is
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: your leverage. ~Are you, ~are you in high leverage position, or are you in low leverage? And that determines how much you can negotiate. High leverage means that, ~you know, ~you have a really scarce, um, expertise, right?
They, they really need to hire
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Mm-hmm.
Angela Langmann: because not a lot of people can do what you can do. Or they've been hiring for this role for seven months, and ~they're des- you know, ~they're desperate to fill it. ~Like, ~you
Sonya Choi La Rosa: No
Angela Langmann: high leverage then. So if that's the case, then yeah, then you should be definitely asking more towards the top of the range versus
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah.
Angela Langmann: bottom of the range
Sonya Choi La Rosa: ~And so, th- you know,~ Just extending that conversation~ around the room and, ~and you know I like to talk about the room and all the things that [00:16:00] happen in this room. ~Um, so, you know, If ~Have you ever seen where someone's really,~ uh,~ successfully,~ uh,~ argued for someone really passionately? You know, someone that may have surprised you, uh, in that room arguing to support ~a,~ a particular candidate ~or, ~or that salary, etc.
Angela Langmann: Yeah, definitely. So there's two different scenarios. ~Um, ~in this scenario, we're talking about hiring for a role, right? ~Not--~ We're not talking about a promotion case, and I can talk about those rooms as well. When I've seen people really push to hire a candidate, again, they're not talking about the salary at this point 'cause we're just talking about the skills that they're going to bring to the table. is when they have really just blown out of the water any of the requirements that we needed for the role, and they would then level up the entire team. Because at Amazon, ~k-~ one of the kind of the credos or, not credos, but principles that they use when they're [00:17:00] hiring is that every new candidate that comes in needs to be better than at least fifty percent of existing people in the role. So that's how they're continuing to raise that hiring bar. And so if someone comes in, and they are really knocking on the door of that next level in terms of their expertise,~ um,~ their experience, how well they did in the interview, then the hiring team, the hiring manager, is really gonna fight to bring that person in. of the key things ~that's, um, made people always say, "No, we need to, um..." "Is this person a rock star?" That's~ what we would ask. Is this person a rock star? One of the key things ~we would s-~ that would make them a rock star is, do we see them as being a potential people leader? Where would they be in the succession plan?
Do we see them continuing to rise up the ranks two or three levels at Amazon? ~Do they, ~do they have upward mobility them, or do we feel like they're just gonna come in and ~kind of ~just stay flat? ~when~
Sonya Choi La Rosa: ~Yeah. That, and, and~ That makes, uh, complete sense when you think about ~w- ~who they're trying to bring into that organization, what's their overall vision, and where do they wanna kinda head around that. So [00:18:00] thank you for that. Do you think that there is much, there's a particular nuance or difference where it comes to,~ uh, in~ internal promotions for some of those bigger roles?
Angela Langmann: ~Well, ~ I think the
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Hmm.
Angela Langmann: principles still do apply. So when it came to the promotion context, one, it was always based, like looking backwards. What have they done? ~You, ~you rarely
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: on potential, right? You like, "Oh, I think that we should promote them because I think they'll do a good job." It's, "No. Angela, for the last twelve months, has demonstrated that she's raised the bar in X, Y, and Z. She's delivered this super complex project that's had X business impact, not only in her area, but across the entire organization." And I think that's a key phrase that gets used a lot when we talk about
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Mm-hmm.
Angela Langmann: Who's ready for the next level? You have to not think in silo, and that's when I coach my clients on is, how are you operating outside of your, ~you know, ~little remit and influencing stakeholders that are outside of your team? [00:19:00] Because they're gonna be the ones in that room making the decision and saying either, "Who? Angela who?" Or they're gonna say, "Oh my gosh, I know Angela.
She did this project for my team. She mentored my, ~you know, ~junior engineers and got this thing over the line, and it wasn't even in her remit. Wow, we should definitely promote her." So it is thinking outside of your
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: and showing that you can expand.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: And I think again, that's such pertinent advice because, again, if we look at the environments we're operating in today, it's that agile through,~ uh,~ multiple rooms, stakeholders, managing and influencing becomes so critical,~ uh,~ in the characteristics and capabilities of, um, team members and leaders of today
Angela Langmann: Yeah, absolutely. When you're going through rounds of layoffs, you're gonna be looking at team members that can be agile, like you said, that can be flexible, that can start to, you know, maybe they're wearing three [00:20:00] hats right now. Well, if we eliminate, ~you know, ~these five other people, can
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Mm-hmm.
Angela Langmann: that work too? Those are gonna be the
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah.
Angela Langmann: survive
Sonya Choi La Rosa: So, you know, one of the things that doesn't get talked about very much is at a senior level, what is actually on the table, right? ~So what do they say? You know,~ Angela and I are breaking down the tea here or, you know. But ~what,~ what is actually on the table, right? 'Cause we know that, yes, you've got salary and bonus, you've got, ~you know, potential, um, STI- well,~ extended STIs, LTIs, that type of thing.
Is there anything else that's actually really on the table that people could be thinking that going, "Oh, hang on, I didn't realize that"?
Angela Langmann: I love this because it's one of the best ways to get you to a total compensation number. So I always talk to my clients, "What's your dream number, and are you flexible in how we get ~to that, ~to that number?" Because oftentimes base salary is one of the least flexible,~ um,~ levers that a hiring manager or a recruiter can pull because they are fixed and they have fixed [00:21:00] bands. One person early on in my career, who was a senior leader at Amazon, we were talking about ~a, ~a, I think what he was making. I can't even,~ like,~ remember what it was, ~but he told me~ he negotiated ~he would~ that he got his parking paid for, and this was in Seattle, and parking was, like,
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: $200 a month. Like, it was quite expensive, and especially for me as entry-level. And I was like, "Wait a second. You can negotiate parking? Why didn't anybody ever tell me that?" So to your question, there are so many
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: are out there that you can negotiate. You just have to be creative with it. And the best part is that oftentimes those things come out of a separate budget, and so it's much easier for the employer to say, "Yes, I will pay for personal development coaching.
I will pay for,~ um,~ a higher stipend when you are on travel. I will pay for you to fly business class instead of economy plus when you do, um, uh, business travel. I will do, [00:22:00] yeah, your public transportation or parking." favorite thing to ask for is more vacation days. I didn't even know that in the beginning of my career that you could ask for,~ like, m- a more week,~ one
more week of vacation.
And oftentimes, if you add all that up, that's like tens of thousands of dollars worth of value, right? so I would say there's almost nothing that you can't
negotiate.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: That so really, uh, sit down, create your ideal. Don't put the constraints ~or,~ or as they say, you know, get a blank piece of paper out and go, If I could, what would really. Just park money for one side. Yeah, you've got that, ~but,~ but what, what could those bit bits be? Um, Because you never know if you have those conversations, what could happen?
Angela Langmann: Yeah, and it's all about finding that,~ like,~ mutual value exchange, right? The best negotiation is that when both parties walk away feeling that they've won. And so if it's easy for that employer to say, "Sure, I will give you an extra week of holiday. I just can't go up on your [00:23:00] base pay," or, "Maybe I'll change the way that your shares are vesting.
We can accelerate that and put it more in year one ~than, ~than year two." Things like that, that makes the employer think, "Wow, this is great. Like, Angela's open to, know, being creative on how we get her to that total number, and she's not just so fixed on.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: You have given so many gold nuggets, I'm gonna call them,~ uh,~ throughout this episode. If you had to tell someone when you stop listening from, from this podcast today and you walk out of the room and you wanna focus on negotiating, what's the one thing you would tell them to start to do?
Angela Langmann: Well, one of the best exercises that I think gets people really in gear is to go and research what your job is currently paying in the market. this is what I tell everyone. Don't think, "Oh,~ I,~ I feel like I'm underpaid," and you're not... You don't know. Go get the data, right? Figure out how to get the data to understand if you are underpaid or not.
~Like, ~ That's [00:24:00] the first step, and not enough people are doing that. Because the chances are, if you've been in your role for more than three years, you're underpaid. The market has moved faster than what your salary has. And then the second thing I love to do, 'cause I'm a very kind of visual person, is then say, "Okay,~ well,~ how much...
What's the gap? And what am I gonna
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Oh,
Angela Langmann: that money?
Sonya Choi La Rosa: no, no.
Angela Langmann: Am I gonna go to the Maldives? Am I gonna buy some shoes? Am I gonna pay down my mortgage? Am I gonna..." ~You know,~
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: with that money? And then you have, ~you know, ~it's out of your head. It's written down. You have a goal that
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah. I
Angela Langmann: can chase after.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Love that. Very, very practical. So the way I normally ~end up, uh,~ end my interviews is with three key questions, so designed to be really short, sharp, uh, answers. So you can't be on the Style and Strategy Podcast without me asking, what is your go-to signature style piece that really represents your leadership brand?
Angela Langmann: I had to really think about this question, and I know it's supposed to be short. ~But I have to~
Sonya Choi La Rosa: ~great~
Angela Langmann: ~story. ~Back in the day [00:25:00] when I started at Amazon, we had all these groups that you could get added to. They were like social groups, and it could be like car enthusiasts, or it could be like people that love food. Well, there was one called Fashionistas, and it was like you was invite only. You could not add yourself to the group. So finally I got added to the group, and in my little intro, Daniel said, ~who's,~ who was the, the moderator of this group. He said, "Angela ~is, ~is added to Fashionista because her earring selection is, like, always on point." And actually, I thought about it,
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: earrings. I think that's always been my signature thing. I think they can dress it up. They can dress it down. You can look rich. You can look fun. ~You can... You know, ~it really does a lot to your signature piece.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Oh, I love that. And given that I know you. And I, you know, seeing you interact, your earrings are always fantastic. And now that you've got the, the shorter hair as well, ~like, y- ~you're really bringing that focal point right in as well. ~So, and ~So now then, if you move on, uh, from your signature style piece, ~what,~ what book are you maybe reading, have read, um, [00:26:00] that's really left an imprint, impact, ~um,~ when it comes to your leadership journey?
Angela Langmann: I loved the book by Greg McKeown, Essentialism. For me, that was especially important when I was working corporate and ~you are work...~ you're wearing so many hats, and your inbox is always maxed out, and you have~ you, you know, ~12 meetings in a day. I love the principles there of, like, less is more, cutting out the fat.
I think there's a point of diminishing returns that we all go through, and to really look at what's critical. And then it actually flows through in a lot
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: right? It's like from ~what you're, ~what you're wearing, what your house is like, the material things. So I think it's just ~a verily...~ a really good, um, philosophy
Sonya Choi La Rosa: ~one. I,~ I actually haven't read that one, so I'm now gonna add it to the list. ~And so, and then finally, um, really like a, your quick... Actually, hang on. Hold on. That's right.~ So finally, ~w- ~what is the one thing you would do 10 minutes before a really important conversation?
Angela Langmann: Breathwork.
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah
Angela Langmann: I believe in ~both~ box breathing for sure. ~and~ One thing [00:27:00] that I've recently been working on with my clients is framing how I want that other person to walk out of that meeting. What feeling do I want them to have? So I've kind of like, it's more of putting myself in their shoes. Those are the two things that I
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Oh, fantastic. Very well-rounded. Thank you so much, Angela, for being on the Style and Strategy podcast. It's been a pleasure catching up with you as always. If,~ uh,~ any of my listeners wanna find you or find out more, ~how, how can... how...~ what's best way to do that?
Angela Langmann: Thank you. It has been a pleasure, and I love this. I wish
Sonya Choi La Rosa: Yeah.
Angela Langmann: could just keep going for hours. ~Uh, ~but the best way is just go to my website, angelalangmann.com. have a ton of information on there, negotiation tips. You'll also see links to my negotiation course, and then once a month, I run a free master class that is me giving you scripts that you can use right away to ask for a raise.
I'm probably giving away too much value [00:28:00] in those master classes. ~But hey, there you go. So that, those are the best ways to, um, learn from me~
Sonya Choi La Rosa: ~Amazing. ~Thank you, Angela. So I will have all those details in the show notes. So if you're ever thinking about negotiation or moving into a new role, I would highly recommend, uh, checking out Angela and getting coached by her around negotiation. So thanks so much and,~ uh,~ I'll chat to you soon
Angela Langmann: Thank you, Sonya. Talk to you soon
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